MTT > SnG
No I didn't win a MTT which made me say the bold statement on my title. I have however been grappling with a winning strategy on my remaining roll. I did a little bit better on Day 2 placing 2/4 ITM on the turbos for a net gain of $40.
After that I proceeded to play 2 hours of DOTA and this game actually showed me something interesting about my type of play. I seem to excel at single player perspective games. I used to be pretty good at counterstrike, I am a good player at DOTA and I used to be an excellent Magic player. I also crushed all single player RPG games that I played. Ok I better stop since I'm beginning to sound like a dork.
But the important point is that when I am concentrating on a single task I do well. I am great at micromanaging but was incompetent with macromanaging.
The point? I don't think I am doing well at multi tabling. I don't have the hand and eye coordination for the popping tables and I cannot make the perfect decision if I need to make 4 of them at the same time. However, single tabling SnGs is a losing proposition since I agree with the SnG players that its all about volume. I can play 2 tables at most well and that doesnt work with SnGs.
However, its perfect for the MTTs. Additionally, I was doing some thinking (which led me to the statement on my title). If I was playing a SnG and I won the tournament I would get about 4 times my buy-in. If I went ahead and played a second one and won that consecutively I would have made 8 times my buy-in.
Now in a 100 player MTT if I survive the ITM cutoff of 10% then I would make roughly 2 times my buy-in. But in essence if I win the "next" round I will win about 30 times my buy-in!
32 > 8
Of course I know its not that simple but then again experience shows me that I am right. I am probably a lesser player then the other SnG players here by sheer experience. I have played online for less then 2 months and occasionally at live games. Others have played for months or years showing consistent and undeniable proof that their system works. But I was fortunate enough to win 15 times my initial bankroll within a short time due to wins at the MTTs.
So now I need to figure out how I can afford to play those HIGH RISK MTTs at minimum expense. Reading through the other blogs I saw the answer, Satellites! (11finger and Erick proves they are the key to cheap main events) and looking through the game list at FTP I saw an 18 man SnG that pay outs a $75 token for 1-5 and $48 for 6th. All for a $22+2 entry fee. This may be the winning strategy I may be looking for. I need to play the 75s because that where I excel but my bankroll can only take the $26s. This allows me to rack up 75s for multiple shots at the big event. Additionally, since 1st to 5th get the token, the payout is very very flat allowing CONSISTENCY and PATIENCE to win out.
My roll allows me to take about 22 shots at this event. If I can really concentrate and get a token 50% if the time I would have 11 shots at the big MTT. Compared to only 6 if I just went ahead and paid for the entries. I would have padded my buy-ins by almost 100%. Of course the tokens are non-convertible to cash hehehe so there is no backing out after I embark on this quest.
Its a logical and valid gameplan that is based on the skillset that I have pegged myself to possess. I'd say it will take me less then 6 days to find out if I'm right hehehe.
If I'm wrong...... REBUY!!!!!!! LOL
Day 2 Update
Running Count - +$40
Bankroll - $465
$75 TOKENS earned = 0
After that I proceeded to play 2 hours of DOTA and this game actually showed me something interesting about my type of play. I seem to excel at single player perspective games. I used to be pretty good at counterstrike, I am a good player at DOTA and I used to be an excellent Magic player. I also crushed all single player RPG games that I played. Ok I better stop since I'm beginning to sound like a dork.
But the important point is that when I am concentrating on a single task I do well. I am great at micromanaging but was incompetent with macromanaging.
The point? I don't think I am doing well at multi tabling. I don't have the hand and eye coordination for the popping tables and I cannot make the perfect decision if I need to make 4 of them at the same time. However, single tabling SnGs is a losing proposition since I agree with the SnG players that its all about volume. I can play 2 tables at most well and that doesnt work with SnGs.
However, its perfect for the MTTs. Additionally, I was doing some thinking (which led me to the statement on my title). If I was playing a SnG and I won the tournament I would get about 4 times my buy-in. If I went ahead and played a second one and won that consecutively I would have made 8 times my buy-in.
Now in a 100 player MTT if I survive the ITM cutoff of 10% then I would make roughly 2 times my buy-in. But in essence if I win the "next" round I will win about 30 times my buy-in!
32 > 8
Of course I know its not that simple but then again experience shows me that I am right. I am probably a lesser player then the other SnG players here by sheer experience. I have played online for less then 2 months and occasionally at live games. Others have played for months or years showing consistent and undeniable proof that their system works. But I was fortunate enough to win 15 times my initial bankroll within a short time due to wins at the MTTs.
So now I need to figure out how I can afford to play those HIGH RISK MTTs at minimum expense. Reading through the other blogs I saw the answer, Satellites! (11finger and Erick proves they are the key to cheap main events) and looking through the game list at FTP I saw an 18 man SnG that pay outs a $75 token for 1-5 and $48 for 6th. All for a $22+2 entry fee. This may be the winning strategy I may be looking for. I need to play the 75s because that where I excel but my bankroll can only take the $26s. This allows me to rack up 75s for multiple shots at the big event. Additionally, since 1st to 5th get the token, the payout is very very flat allowing CONSISTENCY and PATIENCE to win out.
My roll allows me to take about 22 shots at this event. If I can really concentrate and get a token 50% if the time I would have 11 shots at the big MTT. Compared to only 6 if I just went ahead and paid for the entries. I would have padded my buy-ins by almost 100%. Of course the tokens are non-convertible to cash hehehe so there is no backing out after I embark on this quest.
Its a logical and valid gameplan that is based on the skillset that I have pegged myself to possess. I'd say it will take me less then 6 days to find out if I'm right hehehe.
If I'm wrong...... REBUY!!!!!!! LOL
Day 2 Update
Running Count - +$40
Bankroll - $465
$75 TOKENS earned = 0
posted by GameFrog at 7:00 AM
8 Comments:
I think this is worth looking into, might even try it myself. One thing you need to factor in though is time. I did a rough computation and funnily enough results for doing turbo sng's and the token sats seems to be the same (of course that's assuming the figures I used are correct)
Assumption:
Average 18 man SNG: 1hr 40mins (100mins)
Average 1table Turbo SNG: 35mins
If you two-table then you can finish 22 18-man SNG's in 1100 mins (22/2 x 100mins), total entry fee of ($22+2 x 22) $528 will translate into ($75 x 11 tokens) $825 - net profit $825-$528 = $297.
In that same period of time, you can play (1100 mins / 35 mins x 2 tabling) 62 turbo SNG's. Assuming your ROI is 20%, total entry fee of ($22+2 x 62) $1488 will translate into ($1488 x 120%) 1785.6 - net profit $297.6
One big difference though is that with the turbo SNG's you can move up to $33+3 and increase your $ ROI by 50% something which you cannot do with the token sats as the highest level seems to be $22+2. So it might be more efficient to use your whole bankroll on $33+3 turbo SNG's then using the proceeds to enter $75 tourneys. Your bankroll is about 13 x buyin which I think is sufficient enough (unless you run into bad variance streak).
BTW just checked, the buyin for the 18 man SNG is actually 24+2, so you actually only net $253 in profits...
Hmmmm very good point 11finger. I am already bored with the turbos and I forgot that the 18 man SnGs are not turbo. Argh.....
Then again I will give it a few tries as well as the lower SnGs that give out $26s
Need to find ways to pad my roll with the minimum risks. The thing VS turbos is the payout structure. The 18 man SnG is extremely flat (almost completely flat) and allows for more consistency since most of the time the final 4 comes to down to coinflips. I dont like coinflips
IMHO,
If you want to pad your roll frog, I suggest you use 1/4 if your winnings and venture into something else rather than MTTs.
Starting with around $400+ is good but it depends on the stakes you are going to play at.
If you don't like coinflips don't take 'em! I don't! :)
Hahaha you guys make good points. I played a few last night and once again I was finding myself getting impatient. I may just put in another $1K but I want to try Pro Poker Pkay on MTTs at stars, party and ftp. I'll find out soon enough hehe
I played a couple this morning and it didn't take as long as I thought it would. Reason being the game basically ends when it's down to 5 people so unlike a typical SNG the game time is cut short by about 20-25%...
Will play another 18 more of these, targetting to get 10 tokens total. Was able to get two tokens this morning so 8 more to go... After that use the tokens for MTT's, I figure if I get to at least one final table then you get money back or more depending on how deep you place...
BTW, I find it surprising that you are getting impatient with the SNG's when you play mainly MTT's which lasts a lot longer...
Good to hear this strat seems to be working for you 11finger.
Yeap the reason being is that there is no thrill of winning thousands of dollars. Putting in 1 hour of my time for $70+ (which is of course not a sure thing) vs 3 hours that can net me $4K is what drives my patience hehe
Well still too early to tell, just went 1 out of 3 today basically lost $3 there lol...
With regard to being patient, just think of the SNG as the 1st three levels of the MTT...
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